E35 - Curlsicles

Curl Next Door Episode 35 - "Curlsicles", featuring Starr Mason from Hair Cuttery

Family of Brands.

 

Hosts: Stephanie Podolak and Tamara Robbins Griffith

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[intro music]

 

Stephanie and Tamara: Curl Next Door!

 

[sound of doorbell]

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Welcome to Curl Next Door, the podcast that spirals outta control

 

Stephanie Podolak: Uh, totally. Well said lady. Totally well said. That is Tamara Robbins Griffith. Talking about spiraling.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: And you are Stephanie Podolak

 

Stephanie Podolak: I try to be

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: sometimes.

 

Stephanie Podolak: sometimes.

 

Hi everyone. Thanks for joining Curl Next Door Podcast, the un-beauty podcast about curly hair.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Where we talk about all the things. And let me tell you, there are some interesting stories at the poopoo boo poop curl desk this week,

 

Stephanie Podolak: Ooh,

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: I have seen online. 

 

Stephanie Podolak: let's hear it. 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Okay, so this one's interesting to me on, uh, popped up on Allure and I think they have a column called Curl Talk. There is a YouTuber, Chaeso Park, the article said that she is breaking the stigma around curly hair in South Korea. And what's interesting is that, as per this article, giving them full credit, South Korea is recognized for its culture which expands to global commodities like K-Pop and K-Beauty, but it's also known for very rigid beauty standards.

 

And a lot of Koreans are into long-term modifications, plastic surgery, and very much smoothing their naturally curly hair through chemical straightening. And I think it's a bit of a misconception that we think Asian people have straight hair and it's frankly not true. Um, so there's a lot of Korean people that have curly or wavy hair textures.

 

And a lot of Koreans do a very popular perm called the Korean Magic Straight Perm. And there there's also the Japanese straightening, right. That we've heard about in the past. So it's interesting. So she is, you know, depicting herself in her YouTube channel with curly hair, and that is, uh, breaking some boundaries, and, uh, making a difference.

 

And she was inspired by YouTuber, Manes by Mel. Who is Canadian. Yeah and who Park says helped her break away from the popular Curly Girl Method, which wasn't working for her. Yeah, so it's just, it's interesting as we talk about, you know, and maybe it ties in a little bit to our fabulous interview today with a really interesting expert.

 

Like there's so many different cultures with curls. There's so many different curl types and really for everybody, we're trying to just come to terms with it and, and show, you know, curly hair representation across the board, across cultures.

 

Stephanie Podolak: Yeah, I totally agree. It's so interesting to hear about that from Korea, cuz we've seen that across so many different countries. We, you know, when we featured someone from India, that's the same thing there, straight hair is considered more beautiful. We definitely know that's the case in North America.

 

and it's just one more data point to prove that people are embracing their natural hair.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Yeah. yeah, yeah. yeah. So she's getting her hair license, she's creating her own curl inclusive hair care line in South Korea. And what's interesting is that we see this huge boon here of all these products popping up as more and more people embrace natural curls.

 

But curly hair products are nonexistent in South Korea. So she gets all of her products from overseas or Amazon. Right. So I think, you know, for people there who start to maybe embrace their curls and waves, it would be great to have a local product line they can purchase.

 

Stephanie Podolak: Totally. 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: So, so that was really interesting that I stumbled upon. And yeah, we'll link to her, we can post the, the article from Allure and then also, there's an interesting, uh, article about Michelle Obama saying that Americans were not ready for her natural hair.

 

And I'm seeing this in the guardian.com, but I think it's, it's been around because she's doing a book tour. She's got a new book out and she has been going around with her natural hair and some curls on display and really saying that Americans weren't ready for her natural hair during Barack Obama's tenure at the White House.

 

It's very interesting to hear her talk about this, and she said she decided to straighten her hair as the American people were just getting adjusted to having a black first family. She just thought they weren't ready for it and she wanted, she wanted the, an administration to focus on its agenda instead of having to answer racist questions about her hair.

 

Stephanie Podolak: It's so intense.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Right. And she's saying, let me keep my hair straight. Let's get healthcare passed. Right.

 

Stephanie Podolak: Yeah, and unfortunately she's right. There would've been so much press and news and discussion about her looks, and it would've been a distraction. 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Yeah, I mean she, she should have, cuz I think like when you think about, let's say the Biden's now, you know, Jill Biden's probably thinking, what should I wear? Should I wear a skirt? Should I wear pants? Should I wear pantyhose? You know, all these things. But like, it becomes really intense for. .. for someone Black in that situation.

 

And, uh, the US House of Representatives passed the Crown Act in March, which I can't remember if we talked about it on the, um, on the podcast at the time. But it prohibits discrimination based on hairstyles that's kind of ongoing cuz I don't think the Senate has passed it yet.

 

And there's, the United States are so bizarre in some ways, like different states have different versions of that law. It's a very topical conversation and it's not exactly, it's still not resolved. Like we're, maybe we're making progress as a society, but it's not like all of, it's not like racism and discrimination has debunked or disappeared.

 

You know?

 

Stephanie Podolak: No, but you need people in positions of power or social power like Michelle Obama at this point, to be making those kinds of choices because it's so influential on the population

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: yeah. 

 

Stephanie Podolak: and she's huge influence and, and people love her and

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: People love her.

 

Stephanie Podolak: This will very impactful.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: For her to be. I mean, and at the same time, like she's a woman. She has a choice. She can wear her hair however she wants. She doesn't have to wear it natural or curly all the time just to educate people constantly. Like that shouldn't be the responsibility put upon her. But, you know, people love her and so she can, and so she, she is and she will, whenever she feels like it.

 

Stephanie Podolak: For sure. I agree with that comment. And it's interesting when you have a position of power like that, are, who are you? Are you the person or the role? And maybe this is topical because I'm, we just finished watching the Crown and it's like The System, it's The System. Like, so what are you, you know, are you, are you the person or the role that you're in? And in her case, like she was the former First Lady, like that's a pretty important role. And now she's trying to just be Michelle.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Right. Yeah. There's a fine line for anyone in a position of influence and power to be like, what does it mean to have that influence? We see it with, professional athletes, with pop stars, with movie stars and actors, like what's your responsibility to the public in terms of perhaps being a role model?

 

Stephanie Podolak: Yeah. For sure.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Versus being yourself. And I think the distinction is, well, this has always been my take as a kind of follower of gossip and pop culture. If you put yourself out there a lot, then you have a certain responsibility. There is a way to be like famous and then also discreet. You know, some people are not always papped by the paparazzi and we don't know the names of their kids or much about their private life outside of their work. And then other people like you kind of can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

Stephanie Podolak: Definitely.

 

Well, those are some really great Curl Desk updates.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: yeah. I'll post, I'll post those articles. 

 

Stephanie Podolak: Thanks Tamara. And that's, uh, those are some really interesting and important updates. And there's a red thread between those two stories, actually. These two women who are trying to embrace their natural hair. In a society that may not be ready for it yet.

 

It's interesting. 

 

Alright, so moving on. We're really excited about our guests today. Today we have Starr Mason from Hair Cuttery Family of Brands. Starr Mason is a stylist out of the U.S.. She's based in the DMV area and for those of you who don't know what that is, it's near Washington.

 

She's got over 30 years of experience as a stylist and an educator, and she's a curly girl with type four hair. Introducing Starr Mason. 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Hi, Starr welcome. Welcome to Curl Next Door Podcast.

 

Starr Mason: Thank you

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: the Canadian Podcast about curly hair, curly haired people, curly haired stories, some curly haired tips when we have an expert like you on the show. Otherwise, we're just fumbling our way through our own curly hair journey.

 

Stephanie Podolak: That's right.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Your hair looks beautiful, Starr by the way!

 

Starr Mason: Thank you so much. Well, just a disclaimer, you know I purchased it, but it is mine while I wear it, so...

 

Stephanie Podolak: There you go,

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Absolutely. And I think it's like that's part of the reality for a lot of people with curly hair, especially like in the, in the types of the 4, 4C,

 

4B, maybe 4, like I don't know where, when everybody's deciding to like how to do their hair, who's purchasing extensions and.

 

Starr Mason: Well, you know, it's, it's great to have a protective style cuz I am a 4 C girl and being on the go as much as I am, it's sometimes hard to take all the things that I need to prep my hair and to prepare my hair and get it ready for the next day. And sometimes I'm on stage and I can't afford to have a bad hair day, so I just need to.

 

I wear protective styles a lot because one, they look fabulous, and two, they're very easy and convenient.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Not to like jump in off the deep end, but I'm, I'm curious now, and I think we wanna be like inclusive to all of our listeners, and our listeners have many different hair types, but for people who don't really know a lot about like a 4C hair, when do you choose a protective style? What does it mean to, to do protective styling?

 

Starr Mason: So, so first of all, 4C hair, the curl pattern is very tight. For me, I like it better when I wear stretch styles, but in order to keep it stretch, it takes a little bit of nighttime maintenance, daytime maintenance, um, in the morning maintenance to, to keep it that way. So the protective style for me, is a style that is very versatile.

 

I can have long, curly, I mean like you don't see the different colors in it right now, but it's red, blonde and brown. So I can be very versatile in my look. Actually tonight, and I'm gonna have a short, curly, um, afro. So it really is, it allows me to express myself in different ways.

 

Um, and that protective style is, Is fantastic because you can do whatever you want. I mean, you can be, if I wanted to be long, straight blonde, I can be because I can, you know, So I think that's what makes the protective styles so cool. But then it still allows you to maintain your curly locks without overstressing them to get them to go straighter, to get them to be curlier or, or something like that.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: The idea being it's, you've got braids or something else that's just keeping your hair safe and healthy, but you could still have all the variety and all the fun.

 

Starr Mason: Right. So most protective styles, if you're wearing a wig protective style, that could easily be changed every day, but your hair underneath is kind of braided down, so it's not having the stress of the wig going back and forth over it. This what I have. is what we call a crochet. So it is my hair that's braided down, and then the extensions are latch hooked or crocheted in.

 

Um, so this can be warm for about maybe three to four weeks. and then you take it all down and you start all over again.

 

Stephanie Podolak: How long does that process take?

 

Starr Mason: About two hours for the crochet. A wig is, probably what, 20 minutes to braid you down. And then you can put your wig on, take your wig off. Some people will attach their wigs on where they will last a week, and then they will just go get it removed and then reattached. 

 

Stephanie Podolak: Okay.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: I do go on as a guest expert on a daytime show in Canada, and the host, who's a friend of mine, wears a lot of beautiful wigs and sometimes I'm kind of like jealous cuz it looks so gorgeous. She gets to have so much fun. But it sounds like it would get expensive too.

 

Starr Mason: So it can get expensive, especially if you are, buying quality wigs. I mean, you can get a wig from anywhere, and it could be a very reasonable wig. I won't call it cheap, but very reasonable wig. And it might look very reasonable. or you can spend a little money on your wigs and, um, the quality that you buy lasts for a long time.

 

So you can have a wig and then you pay good money for, because they're using quality human hair, then that wig can last you for a long time. Like the curly one that I wear, um, I think I've had it for maybe like eight or nine months, and I just pull it out when I'm in between my transition. So,

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: hum

 

Stephanie Podolak: So we got excited and dove right in,

 

but we would love, I know we'd love to take a step back and just hear a bit more about you. Can you tell us about yourself and your curly hair journey?

 

Starr Mason: So my name is Star Mason. I am a field education leader for, um, Hair Cuttery family of brands. And I've been with curly hair now for, uh, 54 years. That's my age. I know, I know, but I've been, I'm a 4C girl, so I've dealt with curly hair my whole life. Um, and what's really interesting is that, in the last few years,

 

curly hair is, has really stepped up and become something. You know, we struggle with our curly hair, like in private now. We struggle out loud

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Yes, Yes.

 

Starr Mason: love it. But yeah, I've been in the industry for over 30 years, really growing from my own personal experience with my curly hair to other people's experiences with their curly hair, because curly hair has so many different dimensions.

 

Everybody lives a different journey. So it's good to hear other people's journey. It's good to learn from other people's journey and really listen, because I think as a stylist, one of our things is we think we know hair and we do, but everybody's journey is different. So when I'm talking to you about your curly hair, I wanna know, you know, how do you feel about your curls?

 

Like what do your curls say to you? How do they speak to you? Because I can have a idea of what your curls should be saying, but you could have done some things to your curls and your curls are now not saying what they should be saying. And then what do you want them to say? How do you want them to be?

 

So it's, I tell people, fall in love with your curls because when you talk to me about your curls, and I can tell you're not loving your curls, I'm more or less like, let's, let's help you love your curls. So the reality of it is it really is, um, what I do. I absolutely love, love, love, love hair. I, I love curls and I love the people that are attached to the hair and the curls, and that's what makes my job easy and fun.

 

And then I also, I teach classes for Hair Cuttery Family of Brands, and I get to travel everywhere, meet new people all the time, and either help you fall in love with your passion, which is hair, or help a salon professional rekindle their passion for hair. Um, because like any job that you work every day, it can become here come another head of hair.

 

Okay? And then it's really all about falling back in love with it starting all over again. Rekindling that love and why you got into here in the first place.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Do you find that you're training a lot of stylists who are nervous about curly hair or they don't feel as confident cutting curls as they would straighter hair types?

 

Starr Mason: So, yeah, they're very nervous about curly hair. I mean, First of all, hair is hair. And once you learn hair is hair and you learn the fine, medium and coarse, the wavy curly, extra curly, all that good stuff. And then you treat it like any other hair, but understand it, it has different characteristics, so it does different things versus just lay there.

 

I, I do find that a lot of salon professionals are nervous. But I think that once they, get behind it, um, get in front of it and learn to, to play with it, to touch it, to not be afraid to, ask people questions about their curls. I think that the door opens up. You know, it's funny, I was in the salon one day, one of the salon professionals came in and she was like, she closed the door behind her and she was like, this lady comes in every week and she wants me to do her hair, and apparently I'm doing something good because she keeps coming back. She says every time I comb out her hair, I spend another 30 minutes combing out her hair.

 

Then I spend another 30 minutes combing out her hair. She goes, Her curls just keep going like this. And it was just the cutest thing. It was the cutest thing. So I explained to her how to comb out a section two strand twisted, comb out another section two strand twisted. So when you start to go blow dry it, you are only blow drying the section and all of it's pinned up.

 

And so now you're not fighting her curls and her curls are going to love you. She came back like, I think I saw her maybe a month later, and she. Oh my goodness. And, and, and she said it saved her so much time, but the guest was like, she says, I am impressed. You asked somebody some questions, you got a better understanding.

 

And she says, Yes. I asked our educator, and she was so impressed with her because she cared enough about her curls, to do research to find out what is a better way to handle her hair, because I'm losing this battle of the tangles!

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: It seems like a good way to approach life in general too, though. Like we don't know everything. We always have to learn about so many aspects of life. Keep asking questions and your curiosity shows respect for everything around you that you, that you don't know that you wanna learn more.

 

Starr Mason: Yes. I love that. I absolutely love that.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Mm-hmm.

 

Stephanie Podolak: Can you tell us a bit more about Hair Cuttery? What is it and what is your role with Hair Cuttery?

 

Starr Mason: So Hair Cuttery, um, Family of Brands is a company that has over, 500 salons. W hat I do at Hair Cuttery is I provide technical education and soft skilled education. The cool thing about this company is that our education is free to every salon professional.

 

Um, the only thing they have to give is their time. And we also offer paid education, for our new stylists that come on board because we have classes that they're required to take and we pay them to attend those classes. Um, and we teach classes from, colour to Curl and Coil as a new class that we just created and we just rolled out, in the month of October. And then we also teach, clipper classes and cutting classes. And then some of our life classes are called Blueprint. And I absolutely love that because it basically teaches a salon professional how to balance their world, how to get the best of themselves from behind the chair, but also how to balance, because one of the things salon professionals or stylists tend to do is they tend to live in a world of all work and no play or all play in no work.

 

Gotta have both. So it really teaches them how to, to balance their world.

 

Stephanie Podolak: And do you get people joining you from all over the country?

 

Starr Mason: So we get people that join us from, all over the company. So because it is a free company class, we offer it only to our salon professionals. So we have salon professionals that live in Florida, Virginia, Chicago, Delaware, Philadelphia, New Jersey, 

 

oh, in Maryland,

 

Stephanie Podolak: Yeah,

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: And, and it's, not just curly hair, all kinds of hair, but of course you, you have special specialization within Curl.

 

Starr Mason: Yeah, so, um, we have a team of educators. My position as a field education leader and it's three of us. And then we have a team of educators and, um, their titles are regional performing artists and all of us together teach classes, all over the place. So we do live classes and we also do virtual classes, but not just for curly hair, but for everything.

 

It's pretty cool.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: What's your favorite class to teach?

 

Starr Mason: So I have passion for all of them. I think. It's not that I have a favorite class, I have favorite people. And that's people who love hair. So whether you come in and I, I always start the class by asking people, How many of you were told to be here? And they start laughing because some of them were basically asked to come but told they were gonna be there. And those are the people that I love because by the time they leave, they think this was the best thing for them because they learned a lot for them. It, it's about helping them, stay in passion for what they do because if they're passionate about what they do, they pass that passion on to the guests whose hair they're servicing. Because it's nothing like going into a salon and you get a mean angry stylist and you're like, I don't want her doing my hair.

 

And so I want them to be passionate about what they do. So even when it's something like curly and coils that there may not be as confident with, um, my goal is to help them get confident. If I have a wig on, I, no problem with me taking my wig off and letting you see my hair and letting you touch it because that's the way we learn.

 

We learn by touching and then we learn the theory part as well. 

 

Stephanie Podolak: Shifting gears a bit. When we started chatting, you mentioned that you're seeing more people embracing their curls more. And we've been seeing this trend too. There's a movement towards accepting natural hair and, uh, we wanted to get your perspective on that. What have you seen, You've been in the business a long time.

 

Have you been seeing a trend towards more acceptance of natural hair?

 

Starr Mason: I think that, when we say acceptance, I think that it goes two ways. I think people are accepting it because women are embracing it.

 

Stephanie Podolak: Mm-hmm. 

 

Starr Mason: Everyone's not just going to straighten out their hair anymore. They are finding ways to make their curls come to life and come to life could mean different things to different people.

 

Some people who have 4C would want their hair to be nice and tight to their hair because they like that natural look, and they may beat it up even more. And then somebody might wanna stretch it and make their curls really big and bouncy and behaving. And, and I think that, um, it is being accepted more because the women who have the hair is wearing it more.

 

And not only are we wearing. We're caring for it. So it looks healthy, it looks purposeful. Not that you just rolled out of bed and your hair is all smashed. It is that you took the time to make sure that this smash was perfectly balanced with this smash and that it looks, it, it looks the way you wanted to look.

 

So I think that it goes two fold. I think people are accepting it because, us curly girls are, um, loving our curls and we're rocking them so... 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: I wanted to ask you star, like, do you think that it's, we see this representation of curls and the more we see it, the more we do it. Do you think that it's because there's so many more products available to us and so we're that helps too, like, or maybe it's all of those things.

 

Starr Mason: Well, it, it is, it really is because I think that with manufacturers, um, like for us Hair Cuttery Family of Brands, we have a product line called cibu, and we had products that were geared to curly hair, but not like now, like we've invested in a whole product line called Curl and Coil that is designed for curly hair.

 

So a lot of vendors have decided, hey, These ladies like their curls. Let's give them something that they can work with that's gonna make their curls come to life. So I think it goes twofold. I think we have more to use because we are embracing our curls and because it's become more acceptable. So I, think it kind of goes together.

 

Stephanie Podolak: Yeah, that makes sense. You mentioned earlier you're a 4C. We're curious about your perspective on curl typing, because it's getting a little bit controversial lately because some people don't like being put in a bucket. It's also a great tool when you're trying to train people.

 

I'm sure. So what's your perspective on hair typing and whether we should still be using those hair types and how does that work into your training?

 

Starr Mason: I don't necessarily call it hair typing. I try to teach the salon professionals to talk the same language as a guest. If a guest starts saying that I have 4C, I have 4B hair, then I want you to be equipped to understand what she's talking about. But what I want you to look at is the texture of the hair.

 

Is it fine, medium or coarse? And then look at the curl pattern and decide whether her curl pattern, what type of curl pattern she has, and then go into porosity. How fast does her hair absorb moisture? Because how fast our hair absorbs moisture tells you, um, what type of product you should be using on her hair and what type of products and or even the order that she should be using them in. So it to me, the labeling it or calling it 4C or 4B - We started teaching it because they were coming in, I have 4C hair and stylists, like, I don't know what that means. So we need to make sure that they're equipped.

 

But a stylist's, role is to also understand. What does that mean? So not just looking to say she has 4C, but understanding that let's take a look at your curl pattern all over your head, because I could have a tight curl pattern on one section and a looser curl pattern on the other section. And then the things that I've done to my hair can have affected my curl pattern.

 

I mean, if I was to highlight my hair, I could easily change the curl pattern, which it might not now be 4C, but it'll still be fine because my texture is very fine. But now I may have a looser curl because my curl pattern has been altered because of the colour, if that makes sense.

 

Stephanie Podolak: Yeah, it does make sense

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: We've talked to stylists about how coloring, it changes your hair. And I, I bleach my hair too, you can see, because I'm probably ready to get some work done. But, but yeah, I mean, I think what, what we're seeing conversations that come up in a lot of these Facebook groups and of course there's some very big curly Facebook groups just in Canada, you know, the comment that's often made is if you're over typing, if you're really a two, but you think you're a three, then you might be using heavier creams that are actually, you think they're working, but maybe they're not really working and they're weighing down your hair. 

 

Starr Mason: I think sometimes it's about going to a professional and really having your hair analyzed. Um, and analyze basically is doing your consultation. Um, you can do a porosity test. A test basically is when you take a strand of hair and you can drop it in a, in a glass of water. If it goes to the middle, you have medium porosity, meaning your hair has the ability to absorb moisture, but also hold moisture.

 

If it sinks really fast, then it says your hair has high porosity, which means it's really thirsty. So anything you put on it, it's gonna absorb very quickly. And then if low porosity means it stays at the top of that glass, and it's just like, you know, It's gonna take some things to get me to open up my cuticle to let some water in just the same way as letting that same moisture out.

 

So it really is doing hair analysis, looking at your curl pattern on one side of your head versus the other side of your head. I know growing up I used to say I had one side like my mom and one my dad, because one side would do whatever I tell it to do and the other side would be stubborn. It wouldn't do anything.

 

So, and, and it's funny because, and, and it really is, it really is looking at the whole curl, the whole head. Um, and even in some, some kids now, because they have so many nationalities built into one, one person, they could have different patterns or different curls on the same strand. So it really is not just about labeling that person to being 4C. It really is about looking at that curl. 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Yeah,

 

Stephanie Podolak: Hmm.

 

was gonna say, I've never heard the perspective that there could be a different curl pattern in one strand of hair. Yeah. Mind blown.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: So then if you have, would you do different treatment on one side of your head and different like product or styling on the other side of your head?

 

Starr Mason: Well, I mean it's, it's not gonna be to that degree. Like, I would just say that because one side would act right, the other side wouldn't, but it really is not to that degree, but it really is figuring out what type of curl pattern you have and how your curl absorbs moisture.

 

Cause that's the bottom line is how your curl absorbs moisture.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: And it must be how we sleep too. Like if you're always sleeping on one side, the curls on that side are gonna get flattened out more, maybe.

 

Starr Mason: Well, water will always still rejuvenate back to its curl pattern or some type of cream leave-in spray will rejuvenate it back to its curl pattern. So even though you might smush it, it be smushed for a minute, but as soon as you reactivate it with moisture, it will go back to its curl pattern.

 

Stephanie Podolak: And you mentioned that depending on your hair type, you may have to put in the product in different order. Do you have an example of that? Like what would the difference be?

 

Starr Mason: So if you have low porosity, you would do your liquid, cream, oil. So you would do your liquid first, um, and then you would put a cream on and then you would put a oil on and that will allow your hair to absorb the cream. And then the oil would would go in last.

 

If you had high porosity, meaning your cuticle is wide open, you would do your liquid, oil, cream. So you would do your oil first and that would go in and solidify and get your cuticle to mend and then you would do your cream.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Stephanie Podolak: It totally makes sense. We definitely have to do those porosity tests.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Yeah, and, and do a post, uh, a social media post trying to explain it. 

 

Okay. So we would like to know, what's something 100% everyone should do to take care of their curls? Or you need them to know, like you would shout it from the rooftops.

 

Starr Mason: Moisturize your curls need moisture. Cause if you think about how hair grows or how oil comes from the scalp, um, if I, if you had long straight hair, oil comes from the scalp and goes completely straight down, it's like a rollercoaster ride. But when oil comes down, curly hair, it starts to wind and it gets, I always say the oil gets tired and it doesn't go all the way down to the end. So, moisture is your friend. Um, just understanding your porosity will help you understand how to moisturize. Some people, need to do deep conditioners more often and some don't. So it just really is getting with a salon professional and building a relationship because I think having a salon professional that understands your curls can tell you, Okay, so you haven't been moisturizing because I'm looking at your ends now, and they're looking a little thirsty. Um, and then the other thing I would say is curls need a trim. A lot of curly girls are like, they don't wanna get their hair cut because you take off a little bit and it looks like, it looked like you took off a lot. Um, I've, I've seen people out 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: That's me 

 

Starr Mason: over. 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: now.

 

Starr Mason: Over one inch curl. And I'm like, You took a inch. Like, ooh, that's a lot, for a curly girl because you know, the shrinkage is real. So it really is, if you find a salon professional that you build a great relationship with, they understand your curls and they understand your growth pattern. So when you take a quarter of an inch or half an inch today, and you come back in, in about three to four months, and you do that again. As your healthy hair grows out and your split ends are going up, you eliminate the split ends because the reality of it is nothing fixes split ends, but a cut. You can make it better, but it doesn't fix it. So if you are not getting it trimmed, because you're like, I just can't afford to get it trimmed. You can't afford not to get it trimmed.

 

Stephanie Podolak: And so we hear you loud and clear on the moisture. Do you have a favorite hair product that you'd recommend?

 

Starr Mason: Girl, you know, it is Hair Cuttery cibo Curl & Coil line. I mean, I know, and I, I say that because I absolutely love it. It comes with the shampoo conditioner, and it has a mask, but it also has a leave-in spray. And I love the leave-in spray because in the wintertime, us curly haired girls, most of the time in the summer we use more water to remoisten our curls to make 'em pop and everything like that. But in the wintertime, I can't go out with a wet head. So the Curl & Coil spray cream, it's a cream. So when I mist it on, it's just enough that when I scrunch it gets my curls rejuvenated. So, um, like Tamara said, when you go to sleep on it and it smashes, that's just enough moisture to get me to be able to spring it back to life. It has a herbal oil in it, the aloe vera, and then the sunflower seed abstract. I mean, it's just an amazing line that moistures from beginning to end. When you use a shampoo, the conditioner, and then maybe once every two weeks, a deep conditioner, and then your leave-in Curl & Coil cream spray.

 

Stephanie Podolak: And that's a really great segue to discussing how to weatherproof your hair. I mean, it's getting colder out. What else would you recommend as us curly girls get ready for cooler weather?

 

Starr Mason: So it is also wearing protective styles. Also, wearing, stretch styles as I call them. Um, stretch styles are when you would do like a two strand twist or a flat twist. I like the the roller set because then I don't have to wear it wet or go out with it moisturized. Cause in the, in the summertime, I may just wet it in the shower, put a little bit more of moose on it and call it a day because it's not that bad. But in the winter I can't do that. My head would be like an icicle and definitely you guys can't do that in Canada! 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: We can't. No we can't! It's like you. I've gone out actually with wet curls and then they freeze in

 

little curlsicles! 

 

Starr Mason: Curlsicles

 

I like that! want you to have curlsicles but that's really cool. Curlsicles!

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Probably not good for your hair.

 

Starr Mason: No, no, no, no. but another way is if you, um, do a, a shampoo and a scrunch, or you diffuse, one of the ways of having that style to have a little bit more longevity is, when you pull it all up in a loose bun or pull it back in a loose bun and then release that bun in the morning and just go in, manipulate a little bit, that'll let you wear that curly look for a couple of days. So sometimes I'll use a dry shampoo as well to rejuvenate my curls,

 

Not my curls, not 4C, but if I'm working with a 3B or 3C, they could use a dry curl in that last day just to kind of scrunch, just to kind of give 'em a little bit more pop. But then, just one day I wouldn't go into dry shampoo more than one day, cause the dry shampoo is gonna dry it out, but it'll give you enough to push it that one day. But then that next one day is, it's like, no, we're not playing.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: That's interesting because I used to buy dry shampoo when I straightened my hair all the time,

 

and it was like to make it not look greasy and give it a bit of volume at the roots, but then I, I haven't touched a bottle of dry shampoo in like three years

 

because I've been wearing my hair

 

natural.

 

But it's interesting that you can kind of, there might be one day or

 

one

 

moment where it works.

 

Starr Mason: One day where it works. 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: So, start with the holidays, kind of fast approaching. Do you have any, like hairstyles or, or holiday, like party tricks? Party tricks for curly hair that you would recommend like that people can try out. Easy to do hairstyles if they want something a little different, special?

 

Starr Mason: I think the loose ponytails are great when you pull it back into a ponytail and it could be a high ponytail and just let your curls do its thing. I think the more untamed it is, the better it looks. Also, maybe even pulling it back into a, a low ponytail, but scrunching, I mean, pulling it like after you pull it straight back, you then pull your fingers forward so you can see some of the curled rippling

 

as is back in that low ponytail as well. You can always do a side ponytail. And then also if you could do a French role or something like that, it's always great if you want to. You could easily blow it out, but I, I wouldn't blow it out for the holidays.

 

I would just rock the curls and even sometimes just doing it differently than you wear it every day. If you always wear your part over to the left, then maybe put your part over to the right and one side back and put a nice c omb there to keep it back on one side. So it's just many different things like that that you can do with that curly hair. If you're working with a tighter curl pattern, you can do, flat twist in the front, or even flat twist all the way around and then take 'em out. That looks amazing. Two strand twist, all around that looks amazing as well.

 

Stephanie Podolak: You're getting me very excited for the holidays and I think my, my dance card isn't full enough to do all these styles. I'm gonna have to get some parties on the schedule! 

 

We 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: need five, five different parties

 

to try out those five different ideas.

 

Stephanie Podolak: I agree. I agree. 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: At the end of our interviews with a variety of people, and we've had psychologists on the show and product creators and, and stylists and influencers, we like to ask some rapid fire questions just the first thing that pops into your head, uh,

 

without thinking about it too much.

 

Okay, so if you were going to a desert island and you could only bring one curly hair product with you, what would you bring?

 

Starr Mason: Uh, cibo Curl & Coil leave-in cream spray.

 

Stephanie Podolak: Nice. What is your can't-live-without hair accessory.

 

Starr Mason: Can't live without hair extensions. Hair accessories would be my wigs.

 

Stephanie Podolak: Yep.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Okay. And if you, if you could go back in time, what would you tell your younger self about your hair?

 

Starr Mason: I would tell my younger self to love my hair. Um, I don't think I loved it enough. Not like I love it now, but to love my hair. And my hair would be doing big things. And if I understood that I would've taken better care of it, I would've embraced it. Like we would've had a movement way before then, way before now if, I could have told myself that.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: You could have we all, like if only we could all go back in time and have that conversation with our younger selves,

 

that it's beautiful and it's, it's great to be different and explore that and. Have fun with it, and then we would find the product to make do with what we could get in the,

 

eighties or nineties. 

 

Starr Mason: Exactly! We, The mayonnaise wouldn't have seemed that bad. You know, We used to

 

mayonnaise back in the day. Yeah.

 

yeah.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: It was in the magazines. The magazines told us to do it. It wasn't like

 

Starr Mason: wasn't like, thought this ourselves,

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: I know

 

Stephanie Podolak: That's really great advice. Starr, thank you so much for joining us today. That was a ton of fun and we learned a lot and I, I'm sure our listeners have learned a lot also.

 

Starr Mason: thank you so much.

 

Bye-bye. Have a great 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Bye. 

 

Stephanie Podolak: That was amazing. It was so nice to have Starr Mason join us today. 

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: I know she was great it's, it's great to hear a little bit more about like protective hairstyles cause typically I don't spend a lot of time doing that, but I think a lot of curly haired folks do. And you know, there's definitely something to be said for. Just wanting to take care of our hair and different curl types require different care. I also feel like she has kind of schooled me in that like, enough is enough. I need to go get a trim, first of all, and that, you know, we, we should all do that porosity test again. And I think that it's interesting that she's saying, don't get so hung up on your curl type.

 

But yes, you kind of do need to know these things. You need to do the analysis to, to know how to treat it and take care.

 

Stephanie Podolak: Yeah, for sure. But also, If you don't wanna go into curl typing, just talk to your hair salon and hair stylist about the best way to understand your curls. No big thing, just use the language that you wanna use. I also love the tip about how to winterize your hair. I really like having curl refresh sprays, and I've tried to, bunch of them, and most of them are wet.

 

And only one of them I've tried was like a cream and it was my favorite and now I'm understanding why. So definitely gonna get one of those for my winter curl shelf, to help revitalize it in those tough cold days. And curl Sickles.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: because you know what, we don't. We don't wanna go out with wet hair in the winter. That's the reality. So I think maybe I will also try that refreshing spray. Uh, I have one or two in my curl shelf that I don't reach for often, cuz I kind of feel like I need to start over from the beginning when my hair's like not behaving, but. know what I, I did. And, and then, and then we'll, we'll let our listeners go and wrap up this fun episode, but recently I actually, I put my hair back and I styled my bangs from scratch. Do you do that?

 

Stephanie Podolak: No.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Like I didn't wash them, but I fully wet them and just put product in them and styled them

 

because I was like, I don't have, Yeah. Yeah, it did. And then I started cutting them myself, which I just need to get my act together and like go back to my hair stylist. If there's one thing I learn from Starr, find your stylist who knows your hair.

 

Let them take help you take care of it!

 

Stephanie Podolak: There you go. Well, let's leave it there. Great chatting with you.

 

Tamara Robbins Griffith: Great chatting with you. Great chatting with Starr. To all our Curlfriends we hope you have a great day.

 

Stephanie Podolak: Bye.

 

Tamara: 

 

Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to Curl Next Door Podcast, wherever you pod, and follow us on social in between episodes. We're @CurlNextDoorPodcast on Facebook and Instagram and @CurlNextDoorPod on Twitter. 

 

Stephanie: Do you have a curly hair story you want to tell us? 

 

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Until next time curlfriends!